Pelles C forum

Pelles C => General discussions => Topic started by: stdq on May 17, 2012, 07:30:40 am

Title: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: stdq on May 17, 2012, 07:30:40 am

   Hi everyone. I've seen another topic about the commercial use of Pelles C, but I still have some questions on the matter: if I use all tools of Pelles C to develop and release commercial, closed-source software, do I need to release the source code of my program? Can I release the software under any license I choose? Do I have any restriction (in a general sense)?

   Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 17, 2012, 08:58:17 am
In general there is not need to release your source if it is not open source.
The compiler you use doesn't force you to use any special license, since it is just a tool to get the job done.

Your customers are only interested in your application, they are not interested in the compiler you use.
You don't redistribute PellesC, you only distribute your application.

The license of PelleC applies only to you, your customers have to follow the license you ship with your application.
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: stdq on May 18, 2012, 01:43:01 am
   Thanks, Stefan. So, basically, I can use all Pelles C tools (from the official website's overview page) to develop a closed-source, commercial software without restrictions and/or obligations toward Pelles C author? And I also can release the software under any license I prefer?
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 18, 2012, 03:48:02 pm
See it this way, if you use the Mircosoft compiler your customers don't need to by a license from Microsoft, don't they?
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 18, 2012, 04:32:10 pm
Hi Stephan and stdq...
I agree that so long as you aren't actually bundling Pelles C (compiler, liberaries etc.) with your product, the license agreement for your software is between you and your customers.

The thing to understand is that C produces native machine code that is not dependent upon the compiler, linker etc. to run.  It creates a separate entity... thus Pelles C is no more part of your finished product than brushes are part of the finished painting.

Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 18, 2012, 05:23:07 pm
I have tried to find a license mentioned at Pelle's homepage, but there is none.

Would be great if there was a paragraph like:
Quote
Free for non-commercial and commercial use without notice of the creator of PellesC.
If this is the correct terminology?
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 18, 2012, 05:31:44 pm
I have tried to find a license mentioned at Pelle's homepage, but there is none.

Would be great if there was a paragraph like:
Quote
Free for non-commercial and commercial use without notice of the creator of PellesC.
If this is the correct terminology?

The actual statement would be up to Pelle of course... But it should state something to the effect that people are free to use Pelles C to construct programs for either commerical or non-commercial use.  It should also state that Pelle Orinius is the owner Pelles C and grants the user the right to use it freely for non-commercial uses.

Note: The underlined phrase could also say "freely for commercial or non-commercial use" at Pelles elective... But, in his place, I think I'd want to be paid for it if someone is using it to make money.
 
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: AlexN on May 18, 2012, 10:19:54 pm
I have tried to find a license mentioned at Pelle's homepage, but there is none.
What Pelle says about this:
Search for license in this task:
http://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=254.msg996#msg996 (http://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=254.msg996#msg996)
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: AlexN on May 18, 2012, 10:29:07 pm
The thing to understand is that C produces native machine code that is not dependent upon the compiler, linker etc. to run.  It creates a separate entity... thus Pelles C is no more part of your finished product than brushes are part of the finished painting.
But I think a program developed with Pelles C contains usually the C-runtime functions and startup routines written by Pelle. So the ready product is not really free of software from Pelle. ;)
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 18, 2012, 10:40:40 pm
The thing to understand is that C produces native machine code that is not dependent upon the compiler, linker etc. to run.  It creates a separate entity... thus Pelles C is no more part of your finished product than brushes are part of the finished painting.
But I think a program developed with Pelles C contains usually the C-runtime functions and startup routines written by Pelle. So the ready product is not really free of software from Pelle. ;)

Good point...  But I don't think it changes my answer... Maybe a few hairs from the brush are in that painting :D

Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 19, 2012, 08:28:50 am
I have tried to find a license mentioned at Pelle's homepage, but there is none.
What Pelle says about this:
Search for license in this task:
http://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=254.msg996#msg996 (http://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=254.msg996#msg996)

Quote from: reynoldlariza
Another thing, I wan't to know if you really mean the "Free for Professional use", coz I'm using many compilers majority are free, however there's a strict for using it for personal use only, which is kind'a odd. So I like to know more clearly the "LICENSE TYPE" of PellesC.
Yes, it's free - even for commercial use. If you start making money from applications written in Pelles C, I would very much appreciate a donation - but it's not required.

Pelle

Thanks for that thread, but it would really be better to have this information included on the web page of PellesC, since it is something essential for the users.
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 19, 2012, 07:26:31 pm
Thanks for that thread, but it would really be better to have this information included on the web page of PellesC, since it is something essential for the users.

I agree... Web page ... and help file.



Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 19, 2012, 09:28:02 pm
I agree... Web page ... and help file.
Thanks for reminding me that I first looked for that information in the help file ;)
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 20, 2012, 12:12:21 am
I agree... Web page ... and help file.
Thanks for reminding me that I first looked for that information in the help file ;)

LOL... Well ya! ... everything else is in the help file... why not this.  :D :D

Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Pelle on May 20, 2012, 02:34:57 pm
You can do whatever you like with the compiled programs (including distributing runtime-DLL's etc.); What I don't want is for someone to take credit for my work, patch some executables in my distribution and sell it as "Bob's C", or whatever. Including the whole Setup in another package or on a CD-ROM etc. is never a problem - but I like to be informed about it simply to know where Pelles C is being used.

The Setup(s) start with a license page. Like with any other license page in a setup, everyone are using the "auto-ignore" mode apparently.
I'm not a laywer nor a native English speaker so the text may not be perfect. I'm not sure how to phrase it, especially so it works "internationally".

If a native English speaker can phrase this better, I'm happy to update the license text.

( Also: Especially if you are making money from selling programs built with Pelles C, it would be nice if you took some of that money and made a donation to Pelles C - but I will never require you to do so. I'm putting a fair amount of time into this project, so it would be nice to get something in return other than the bug-reports. )

Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Stefan Pendl on May 20, 2012, 06:47:11 pm
The Setup(s) start with a license page. Like with any other license page in a setup, everyone are using the "auto-ignore" mode apparently.
It would be nice to have this available in more than one place, at least the legal notice about commercial/private use and the donation.

I personally won't run the setup multiple times just to read the license.

I must say that I am guilty of accepting the license without reading carefully, since I use PellesC privately.
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: CommonTater on May 21, 2012, 12:00:00 am
I personally won't run the setup multiple times just to read the license.
I must say that I am guilty of accepting the license without reading carefully, since I use PellesC privately.

By way of agreeing with you Stefan...  I will confess to rushing through the setup stages at times as well... and once it's in there, there's no way I'm running the installer again.

What I do with my own stuff is have the installer open the help file (.chm) to the license page at the end of the install with no option to skip that step.
Title: Re: About the commercial use of Pelles C
Post by: Pelle on May 27, 2012, 01:41:35 pm
I must say that I am guilty of accepting the license without reading carefully, since I use PellesC privately.
I know - I often do the same. All the programmers I know are not great "license-readers"...  ;)

I'm just saying that since there is a page in the Setup for a license, it seemed like a good place to put the license (well, duh!). This was a long time ago, I will see if I can do better now on Smorgasbordet... (I will have to do some thinking first...)