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Author Topic: Help viewer and help content  (Read 833 times)

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2022, 09:02:58 pm »
Basically, Microsoft has open sourced the win32 documentation but it's somewhat of a mess. A big project to fix it.

In doing some experimentation over the years, I discovered that in several spots the Win32 documentation is flat out wrong or out of date. For example, Rich Edit 3.0 (riched20.dll) and Rich Edit 4.1 and newer (msftedit.dll) support at least several features for a long time that the documentation says it does not support (especially related to tabstops). One could even somehow put notes in the documentation about stuff like this.

I also discovered a bug in Rich Edit 3.0 that has never been fixed. If you enable justified text, numbered bullets will eventually display improperly, distorted or not at all in Rich Edit 3.0 (riched20.dll). The bug doesn't exist in Rich Edit 4.1 and newer. Long standing unfixed bugs. lol O.O
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 06:42:25 am by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2022, 09:32:15 pm »
The next thing to check did PanDoc or FARHTML rename all of the .md references to .html in each and every newly converted .html file?  If they are still .md even if the syntax is correct for a link it is the wrong extension.

That reminds me, I didn't even mention the last step I took. I used notepad++ to replace all instances of ".md" in all of the files with ".html" to fix broken links.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 09:36:06 pm by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline TimoVJL

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2022, 11:18:58 am »
This talk about help systems should be Pelles C unrelated, as poide.exe have Add-In interface for it.

some examples for searching help with keyword using different shelp sources.
https://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=7250.msg27566#msg27566
https://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=5162.msg19862#msg19862
https://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=5320.msg20437#msg20437
https://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=4442.msg16521#msg16521

There might be more of them.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 11:20:33 am by TimoVJL »
May the source be with you

Offline John Z

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2022, 01:11:18 pm »
Point taken, thanks.  It did get off track and into the weeds of help files. 
I'll post my updated Pelles C developed toc.yml converter to .hhc and .hhk for others.
Further discussion can be handled by e-mail or other means.


John Z

P.S. I will finish Controls.chm eventually and post probably in SourceForge.

Offline TimoVJL

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2022, 01:20:20 pm »
A new topic for Win32 help systems is good idea, like under Pelles C - General discussion.
May the source be with you

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2022, 04:41:13 pm »
A new topic for Win32 help systems is good idea, like under Pelles C - General discussion.

I already have somewhat of a discussion related to help content in my main suggestion thread and I created this thread because of that. It would be good to just move this whole entire "Help viewer and help content" thread to Pelles C general discussion. Maybe leave discussion of the help system that's more related to Pelles C in my main suggestions thread? Would one of the mods please move this "Help viewer and help content" thread. I renamed it too. :)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 07:41:08 pm by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help suggestions
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2022, 04:52:18 pm »
Point taken, thanks.  It did get off track and into the weeds of help files. 
I'll post my updated Pelles C developed toc.yml converter to .hhc and .hhk for others.
Further discussion can be handled by e-mail or other means.


John Z

P.S. I will finish Controls.chm eventually and post probably in SourceForge.

I'm almost thinking one could create a github or sourceforge site for all of this. Convert all (or just the folders I suggested) of the documents to html, fix the table of contents and people could, steadily over time, fix all of the broken links. Leave the source as html so that it can bit steadily fixed by everyone including the original poster. HTML is a little more flexible than markdown as lots of old and new software supports it and there are even some WYSIWYG HTML editors out there.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 07:42:35 pm by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline John Z

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2022, 10:54:49 am »
I'm coming around to the conclusion that this is a bit premature.  The GitHub .md files are so incomplete, just the Controls section has more than 5000 links back to Micro$oft web sites.  Probably half to 2/3 might be duplicates of course for example NMHDR must have 15 same links itself - every time mentioned somewhere. 

Anyway I'm still putting in the man hours 'fixing' Controls after that we'll see.

Of course this depends on the desired end result. Maybe the links are not that important.  In that case I think the methodology
to convert from .md to .html to .mhsc is fairly well defined and tested and straight forward.  TimoVJL's viewer system then would be 'good to go', it does not I believe, acknowledge/display links anyway.

John Z

Offline TimoVJL

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2022, 12:54:43 pm »
There is also other viewer version for .mshc :
https://forum.pellesc.de/index.php?topic=7259.msg27602#msg27602
May the source be with you

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2022, 07:46:28 pm »
Even with broken links the documentation could still be useful. However, it would be better to have working links.

I wonder if one could create a tool to automate the process of replacing the links. Actually, you could somehow create a GUI tool that lists all of the links in the documentation, find out (possibly manually) what each link goes to on Microsoft's web site, replace all instances of that link with the actual article in the offline documentation and check it off of a "to do" list.

I imagine you could even automate the process slightly more by having the tool find the documentation on the Microsoft web site and searching for similar or identical articles in the offline documentation.

Building and fixing all of the offline documentation is a worthwhile project, IMO, because Microsoft rarely, if ever, changes the Windows (Win32) API nowadays. The newest and only additions I can think of are for touch screens, high DPI and high DPI screen/monitor related. Your Controls CHM will be useful and accurate for quite a long time and the same will be true of the CHM files for any of the other folders in the documentation. All the breaking changes happen in .NET Core nowadays.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 09:10:22 pm by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline John Z

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2022, 04:29:05 pm »
Actually, you could somehow create a GUI tool that lists all of the links in the documentation, find out (possibly manually) what each link goes to on Microsoft's web site, replace all instances of that link with the actual article in the offline documentation and check it off of a "to do" list.

The issue, at least for me, is the https links are for documentation that has not been ported into the GitHub repository.  If it has not been ported into the repository there is no assurance that it is covered by the MIT license.  So if one were to just grab it off the Microsoft web site and use/publish it elsewhere that could be a big liability.

I imagine you could even automate the process slightly more by having the tool find the documentation on the Microsoft web site and searching for similar or identical articles in the offline documentation.

 :) Sounds like a good 'first' C project for you.  :)

Building and fixing all of the offline documentation is a worthwhile project, IMO, because Microsoft rarely, if ever, changes the Windows (Win32) API nowadays.

Probably this weekend Controls.chm and Controls.cab will be available on SourceForge.  I've completed the conversions.  I just need to start a new project on SourceForge.  I don't have a GitHUb account.  The files are too large to post in this forum.
I'll update here when it is ready.

John Z

Update: Go here -> https://sourceforge.net/projects/windows-controls-api-docs/
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 06:17:01 pm by John Z »

Offline CandCPlusPlus

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2022, 11:49:09 pm »
The issue, at least for me, is the https links are for documentation that has not been ported into the GitHub repository.  If it has not been ported into the repository there is no assurance that it is covered by the MIT license.  So if one were to just grab it off the Microsoft web site and use/publish it elsewhere that could be a big liability.

True. I wouldn't recommend pulling content directly from Microsoft's docs.microsoft.com web site as the MIT license may not apply there. I was suggesting comparing the content in the links with the content at https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/win32 and https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/sdk-api .

I did noticed too that https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/sdk-api has some content that is missing from https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/win32 .
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 11:59:30 pm by CandCPlusPlus »

Offline John Z

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Re: Help viewer and help content
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2022, 01:53:41 pm »
Now available:

Download offline Controls help file at:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/windows-controls-api-docs/

Default download is Controls.chm but under 'files' Controls.cab can be downloaded as well.

John Z

Well not a lot of downloads for the new .chm or mshc file.  15 for .chm and 0 (Zero) for the .cab (mshc version).
It does take a while to build up steam but first 10 days are not showing high demand.....
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 01:07:36 pm by John Z »