Homework Policy...

[CommonTater]

In another thread, Johnf mentioned that at times we (I?) have been a bit rough on newbies. 
 
So a couple of questions...
 
What is the best way to respond to inquiries from newcomers in the various forums?
 
Is there a general philosophy we should follow for this BBS?
 
Should we treat posts in "Beginner questions" differently than in "Expert questions"?
 
 
I think a discussion of this could be very helpful...
 
 
 

[Stefan Pendl]

Doing the homework for others is not something I would support.

I have always had the impression, that newbies get better results, if they are directed into the right direction to solve their problem.

I would do it in the following order:

• point out their errors and point them to a resource they can use to solve the problem
• make some small corrections to the code, so they see how to get it corrected, if they still fail to solve their problem with the resources provided
• as a last resort one could still post the entirely corrected code, but usually this shows that the OP is not interested in learning C

[CommonTater]

Doing the homework for others is not something I would support.

Absolutely.  The idea that a credible forum like this could be reduced to "homework answers" is galling.

This is why I asked for discussion on this...
Thinking maybe there's a better way...

[CLR]

Yeah, doing the homework for others is not good. The Stefan suggestion is very good.

I remember at the beginning I could not understand C even with the correct solution at hand.

[Vortex]

There should be a no homework rule in the forum.

[JohnF]

There should be a no homework rule in the forum.

I agree.

John

[frankie]

There should be a no homework rule in the forum.

I agree.

John

I agree too.
When if I have time I expose some concepts, if they get them, they are really studying and interested in theyr study, else don't care more.

[CommonTater]

There should be a no homework rule in the forum.

If we say "No homework answers", then I agree...

However if someone is stuck on a homework question I see no problem helping them, so  long as we're not handing out ready to use answers.  It creates a bit of a problem since we won't always know it's homework...

Then there's the problem of helping people who are self-educating and get stuck on one of the exercises in their books. In that case they have no teacher or TA to run to for help...
 

[CommonTater]

I remember at the beginning I could not understand C even with the correct solution at hand.

... 8 years into it and I still get that feeling from time to time...

[Bitbeisser]

There should be a no homework rule in the forum.

If we say "No homework answers", then I agree...

Well, that should rather be "We don't do the homework for you".
People should IMHO very well be able to ask questions regarding their homework here, but can not expect to dump a post with the general problem description here and then come back and pick up the program "ready for delivery".
They should be encouraged to post specific questions, with code snippets of what they come up with and have issues with. For that, they should get specific answers or at the very least getting pointed in the right direction...

However if someone is stuck on a homework question I see no problem helping them, so  long as we're not handing out ready to use answers.  It creates a bit of a problem since we won't always know it's homework...

I would say in that  case, we should err on the safe side and assume that it is homework. If someone is really interested in getting a helping hand, they should have no problem to come back and explain a bit more...

Then there's the problem of helping people who are self-educating and get stuck on one of the exercises in their books. In that case they have no teacher or TA to run to for help...

And that's the point where the soft matter hits the fast rotating object...

If people are in need to get help for a C programming issue and post in a forum like this, they need to be willing to
a) take a look in the forum first to see if their problem might already be answered
b) try to describe their problem as good as possible
c) accept advice/answers they get and most importantly, provide themself feedback on those answers they get

Ralf

[Stefan Pendl]

Well, that should rather be "We don't do the homework for you".
People should IMHO very well be able to ask questions regarding their homework here, but can not expect to dump a post with the general problem description here and then come back and pick up the program "ready for delivery".
They should be encouraged to post specific questions, with code snippets of what they come up with and have issues with. For that, they should get specific answers or at the very least getting pointed in the right direction...

I fully agree that we should provide help for homework questions, but that we don't do the homework for others.

If people are in need to get help for a C programming issue and post in a forum like this, they need to be willing to
a) take a look in the forum first to see if their problem might already be answered
b) try to describe their problem as good as possible
c) accept advice/answers they get and most importantly, provide themself feedback on those answers they get

I have found that youngsters seldom search for already existing answers, but just ask the question over and over again.

As for all things ones mileage will vary.

[CommonTater]

I have found that youngsters seldom search for already existing answers, but just ask the question over and over again.

Becoming ever more demanding with each iteration ...
 
My all time favorite is the kid who asked the same question about 5 or 6 times, got essentially the same answer every time then went "deep end" with a bunch of foul language and "Why won't you help me?"     So as an experiment I posted a working solution, he copied and pasted it into his homework assignment and got caught cheating by his teacher... I love Karma!

Anyhow... Since we appear to be close to a consensus on this how about one of the mods tapping out a little policy statement and posting it as a sticky message at the top of the beginner's forum?

(Of course, I would welcome any additional comments on this topic... )

[Stefan Pendl]

My all time favorite is the kid who asked the same question about 5 or 6 times, got essentially the same answer every time then went "deep end" with a bunch of foul language and "Why won't you help me?" 

I have a déjà-vu
The same thing happened in a forum dedicated to BASIC.

[Bitbeisser]

My all time favorite is the kid who asked the same question about 5 or 6 times, got essentially the same answer every time then went "deep end" with a bunch of foul language and "Why won't you help me?" 

I have a déjà-vu
The same thing happened in a forum dedicated to BASIC.

That wasn't by chance the same dude that posted his FreeBASIC problem on the FreeDOS mailing list?

Ralf

[CommonTater]

ROFL! 

So I should take that this is not a new occurance ....