Pelles C forum
Pelles C forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Drewan on February 09, 2018, 07:49:40 PM
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Hello,
From my point of view I ask the question above because it took a lot of seeking and searching on the web to find a mention and recommend for Pelles C.
There are numerous sites listing and recommending IDEs, big and small – and even on most of the ‘top 50’ type sites for IDEs there is no mention of Pelles C. I eventually found you here only because of an obscure mention in a comment by someone on a question about lightweight IDEs – so obscure that I can’t relocate it! I believe I found PC after I found out that Eclipse and similar are written in Java, and clunky and bug ridden by the fact of that; so I started looking for a lightweight IDE written in C. (The Wikipedia page covering IDEs for C/C++ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C/C++ has a '?' against 'Written in' for the language Pelles C is written in).
Perhaps it is not important that Pelles C is more known in the IDE field?
Anyway, I am glad I found Pelles C to try, and I look forward to using it at the start of my journey with learning C programming.
[From 1985-87 I was a COBOL programmer for a multinational – but then moved into systems analysis, feasibility studies and quality assurance for project/feasibility studies in IT. I only moved away from programming for the reason that the career route was limited for programmers in those days; the alternative I chose was a fast track to higher paid positions].
A part of me has always regretted the move from the thoroughness and detail to the more abstract overview of things. So in my retirement years I want to go back and learn about programming in a more thorough way].
Thank you for Pelles C, and for this forum.
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I believe I found PC after I found out that Eclipse and similar are written in Java, and clunky and bug ridden by the fact of that; so I started looking for a lightweight IDE written in C. (The Wikipedia page covering IDEs for C/C++ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C/C++ has a '?' against 'Written in' for the language Pelles C is written in).
Look at the bug report section, Pelles C also has lots of active bugs. The difference between those IDEs and Pelles C though is that bugs in those are likely to be fixed. Pelle himself seems to have stopped caring about his creation. Not that he can really be blamed for such, lots of work for presumably minimal compensation would eventually lead even the most altruistic to think "Why bother?"
While it doesn't really matter what you use for learning since C is C regardless of IDE, the fact that there's only about two people on the web who care about this product any more isn't great for when you inevitably have some sort of problem, IDE or code.
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I also think that Pelles C has a too low web profile, considering its good characteristics and it seems a waste for a great job. I like to write C code for Windows on a light and easy IDE, really I don't know best alternative to Pelles C.
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While it doesn't really matter what you use for learning since C is C regardless of IDE, the fact that there's only about two people on the web who care about this product any more isn't great for when you inevitably have some sort of problem, IDE or code.
aardvajk: I can see that if hardly anyone here cares (is caring for) Pelles C then why would the wider world care.
I also recognise the point you make about the bugs in Pelles C: it reflects un-professionalism in an application if these are not being addressed.
Both of the above do negate the great worth Pelles C has as a 'light and easy IDE' (as PaoloC13 put it) for C programming in Windows.
I have downloaded and installed Pelles C and will, when I start coding, explore it. In the meantime, for my starter requirements of something simple, I am also looking at greatly extendable code text editors like Atom and the like (all with C compiler and numerous other packages/plugins) after reading: https://www.codementor.io/mattgoldspink/best-text-editor-atom-sublime-vim-visual-studio-code-du10872i7 (https://www.codementor.io/mattgoldspink/best-text-editor-atom-sublime-vim-visual-studio-code-du10872i7).
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When I found Pelles C over three years ago, I was ecstatic ;D: A free C compiler with an IDE that beat the pants off Visual C/C++ (Version 5, Professional).
I know there are some bugs in the IDE, easily ignorable, but I've encountered no problems with the generated code (of course, I'm not a 'power' programmer).
If Pelle has abandoned his creation, well, that's very sad :'(. I wonder if he is still alive. Anyway, I'm very happy with Pelles C and I hope it will be around for awhile (at least until I'm dead); I'm here today to see if there is a newer version than 8.00.60 (Win64)...it's not looking promising.
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Also i'm not a 'power' programmer.
In these days most users don't like too fast programs like poide, as Visual Studio gives vision of to doing actually something, a masculine thing?
Actually it just waste C-programmers time and resources with a .Net subsystem like MSBuild.
PC sellers are quite happy about this)
The poide have an Add-In interface to expand features, if someone really needs that.
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Hello aardvajk,
I am still in contact with Pelle and he tries to release a new version this year. Pelles C is not dead, just a bit in a snail pace.
Best regards
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"I am still in contact with Pelle and he tries to release a new version this year. Pelles C is not dead, just a bit in a snail pace."
Christian, you have no idea how happy we as a community are to hear this!.!.!
Pelle's C rocks!
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Hello aardvajk,
I am still in contact with Pelle and he tries to release a new version this year. Pelles C is not dead, just a bit in a snail pace.
Best regards
I am happy to hear this too. I have gotten a lot out of this IDE and its great to hear that he is still working on it.
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Back to the original topic, I think there are a couple of reasons, at least, why Pelle's C has such a "low web profile"...
For one, very little people are actually looking for a plain C compiler, running only on (for most people) dreaded Windows. A lot of different programming languages are all the rave these days (in most cases not deserved, IMHO) and then plain C is often overlooked in lieu of/overshadowed by it's more fancier (distant) cousins, C++ and C#. And things certainly don't look any brighter when one considers that Micro$oft has a free version of their Visual Studio product, which simply becomes more exposure because it caters to those evil cousins...
And for those few that truly are interested in a clean C compiler, a lot of folks are these days put off that it isn't an Open Source project.
Ralf
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Hello aardvajk,
I am still in contact with Pelle and he tries to release a new version this year. Pelles C is not dead, just a bit in a snail pace.
Best regards
That is great news; I just downloaded Version 9 and am anxious to take it for a spin.
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Very few people know about this IDE. A friend recommendet it to me this summer, so I would never know above about this wonderful program.
It is necessary to popularize, write mini-articles on thematic resources. For example, there is such a major Russian-language resource Habr, and there is no article about Pelles C.
Sorry for the bad English, but I think you understand what I wanted to say.
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Most manufacturers of paid integrated development environments have a staff of professional marketers. They are engaged in the above-mentioned promotion of their product. I think that the author does not have enough free time to hire them and advertise Better if teachers of universities and other educational institutions will use this program in their educational process (as in the example with UNIX OS).
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That is our job, the users of this forum must speak about Pelle's Compilers. We are lucky to use such a free IDE and a good compiler and assembler, also free, we must speak of them all around us. That's what I do. But you are right it is not very known. Make pub onto your web site.
;) PELLE'S COMPILERS
ARE GENIAL
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Many thanks to Pelle for his very nice work.
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Indeed...
I became acquainted with Pelles work by simply googling "C ide for windows".
Visual studio is kinda nice for C++ and such work in windows side, but its C-support has always been something of a bastard child.
Pelles C seems to be filling a lovely niche for me, when it comes to using pure C ( unlike the god-knows what subset enforced by visual studio ) in conjunction with learning more about x86/64 assembly.
It's light-weight, a bit quirky, but simple, non-bloated, rather simple to use and free.
What's there not to like?
I think the current situation is a matter of timing, kinda....
These days, most programmers start and end at highest level languages, never bothering to stop at C, let alone assembly, especially in windows side.
The niche is always alive and well, but in the grand scheme of things, IDE like this has a hard time attracting mainstream appeal.
I think the whole compiler/ide/assembler package is amazing for what it is, but try explaining it to a "modern" programmer. :-\
Overall, a lovely IDE for windows side.
It's currently my primary lower-than-c++ developing environment.
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I found the next reference to Pelles C compiler in Book:
Beginning C, From Beginner to Pro 6th ed, Apress 2020
ISBN 978-1-4842-5975-7e-ISBN 978-1-4842-5976-4
https://doi.org/10.1007/978-1-4842-5976-4
© German Gonzalez-Morris and Ivor Horton 2020
What You Need to Use This Book
"To use this book, you’ll need a computer with a C compiler and library installed, so you can execute the examples, and a program text editor for preparing your source code files. The compiler you use should provide good support for the current international standard for the C language, C17 (ISO/IEC 9899:2018), which is a bug fix version for C11, commonly referred to as C17 or C18. You’ll also need an editor for creating and modifying your code. You can use any plain text editor such as Notepad or vi to create your source program files. However, you’ll get along better if your editor is designed for editing C code.
I can suggest two sources for a suitable C compiler, both of which are freeware:
The GNU C compiler, GCC, is available from www.gnu.org and supports a variety of operating system environments.
The Pelles C compiler for Microsoft Windows is downloadable from www.smorgasbordet.com/pellesc/ and includes an excellent integrated development environment (IDE)."
...Long life to Pelles C!
Merry christmas
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Today it's mostly about GNU and LLVM, not only Pelles C but other compilers of the past, DMC, Watcom,... all faded into oblivion. Pelles C is better as it could keep up with the latest standards. DMC, Watcom,... are way too outdated.
The problems with Pelles C is most libraries out there doesn't support it (there is no ifdef for Pelles C at all!). Pelles C also too different to GNU and LLVM and even different from MSVC. Believe me or not, I downloaded the code for MSVC and I expected it should work with Pelles C then it turns out it doesn't work. LLVM success because it was developed a way it could serve as the drop-in replacement for GCC. Clang and GCC are mostly compatible. Only after Clang gains enough support to stand against GCC it started to introduce incompatible to GCC changes (it own extensions, different designs,...).
To my observation, the header name on Pelles C is sometimes different than GCC (OpenGL header come to mind), the way Pelles C define Win32 also different. The __WIN32__ macro of MinGW GCC is not defined on Pelles C. Either does __WIN64__ (on Pelles C it's _WIN64 isn't it?). This alone drags in so many problems.
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The problems with Pelles C is most libraries out there doesn't support it (there is no ifdef for Pelles C at all!). Pelles C also too different to GNU and LLVM and even different from MSVC. Believe me or not, I downloaded the code for MSVC and I expected it should work with Pelles C then it turns out it doesn't work. LLVM success because it was developed a way it could serve as the drop-in replacement for GCC. Clang and GCC are mostly compatible. Only after Clang gains enough support to stand against GCC it started to introduce incompatible to GCC changes (it own extensions, different designs,...).
To my observation, the header name on Pelles C is sometimes different than GCC (OpenGL header come to mind), the way Pelles C define Win32 also different. The __WIN32__ macro of MinGW GCC is not defined on Pelles C. Either does __WIN64__ (on Pelles C it's _WIN64 isn't it?). This alone drags in so many problems.
Yes you're right, but the point is that MSVC and GCC have defined their standards (both are famous to be not fully compliant to C standards), while PellesC has as main goal the strict adherence to the C standards.
MSVC programs are absolutely deviated from standards so it is normal that you need to adapt them.
I can't say if this is good as "commercial" strategy (withstanding that PellesC is completely free for personal or commercial use), but to use it you have to code in compliant C even when MS extensions are on...
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The problems with Pelles C is most libraries out there doesn't support it (there is no ifdef for Pelles C at all!).
I think you put the finger on the problem right here. But think of it in reverse. If all compilers were compliant to the standard you would not need any ifdef for a compiler name, they all would work.
C was imagined to be a true write once programming language. It fails at that because of deviations from the standard in the implementations thus requiring all these exceptions partially identified by ifdef statements. Same thing that happened in the browser wars. look how many years web developers had to battle/accomodate Micro$soft internet explorer deviations....
IMO Pelle has taken the right path and with the right goal; strict adherence to the C standards.
John Z
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Hello,
From my point of view I ask the question above because it took a lot of seeking and searching on the web to find a mention and recommend for Pelles C.
There are numerous sites listing and recommending IDEs, big and small – and even on most of the ‘top 50’ type sites for IDEs there is no mention of Pelles C. I eventually found you here only because of an obscure mention in a comment by someone on a question about lightweight IDEs – so obscure that I can’t relocate it! I believe I found PC after I found out that Eclipse and similar are written in Java, and clunky and bug ridden by the fact of that; so I started looking for a lightweight IDE written in C. (The Wikipedia page covering IDEs for C/C++ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments#C/C++ has a '?' against 'Written in' for the language Pelles C is written in).
Perhaps it is not important that Pelles C is more known in the IDE field?
Anyway, I am glad I found Pelles C to try, and I look forward to using it at the start of my journey with learning C programming.
[From 1985-87 I was a COBOL programmer for a multinational – but then moved into systems analysis, feasibility studies and quality assurance for project/feasibility studies in IT. I only moved away from programming for the reason that the career route was limited for programmers in those days; the alternative I chose was a fast track to higher paid positions].
A part of me has always regretted the move from the thoroughness and detail to the more abstract overview of things. So in my retirement years I want to go back and learn about programming in a more thorough way].
Thank you for Pelles C, and for this forum.
I agree that Pelles C may not be as well-known as some of the other IDEs out there, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is any less useful or powerful. In fact, sometimes the lesser-known tools can be hidden gems, and it sounds like that may be the case for you with Pelles C.