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Author Topic: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11  (Read 12255 times)

Offline Bitbeisser

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CommonTater

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 05:59:44 pm »
Wow... dissention in the ranks.

It's nice to know Microsoft continues to be as stalwart and backwards as always.  The best OS on the planet, written in an antique dialog of the best Language on the planet....  and now they're talking about Windows 8....  ::)
 
 

Offline Stefan Pendl

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2012, 06:26:23 pm »
If M$ is forcing one to use C++, why are they still using Assembler in their code?
Assembler is much older than C, so they should get rid of the stone-age thing too (sarcasm intended) ;)
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Stefan

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Offline Bitbeisser

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2012, 08:35:49 pm »
If M$ is forcing one to use C++, why are they still using Assembler in their code?
Assembler is much older than C, so they should get rid of the stone-age thing too (sarcasm intended) ;)
I don't see how using assembler is related to support certain standards of C or move towards C++. It simply serves a different purpose.

Btw, I just found this article interesting in regards to some recent posts that complained that certain things work/compile in MSVS and not in Pelle's C...

Ralf

Offline Stefan Pendl

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 08:48:03 pm »
I don't see how using assembler is related to support certain standards of C or move towards C++. It simply serves a different purpose.
I was just saying that no one should force anyone else to use a different language by not implementing the most recent standards of a language.

If it is a C compiler, than support the C standards.
If it is only a C++ compiler, only support C++ standards and drop C entirely.

The problem with C++ is its mixture with C.
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CommonTater

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 09:19:01 pm »
The problem with C++ is its mixture with C.

It tries to be too many things to too many people... and there are times it just doesn't work.

I don't much care about portability issues.  I write only for Windows and almost exclusively in Pelles C.  That's how I get the best bang for the buck (as they say).  Were I to write for some other platform, you can bet I'd be using compilers that test well on both platforms... not Pelles on Windows and GCC on Linux (for example)... I'd want the same compiler both places...

I think Microsoft is so used to sitting in the middle of it's own little feifdom they've lost track of the things we actually do with their Operating Systems. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 09:20:51 pm by CommonTater »

Offline Bitbeisser

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 09:32:11 pm »
If it is a C compiler, than support the C standards.
If it is only a C++ compiler, only support C++ standards and drop C entirely.

The problem with C++ is its mixture with C.
I don't know the C++ standards by hard (try not to use C++ where/when ever possible in the first place), but IIRC, C++ is supposed to be backwards compatible with C. So a C++ compiler should be able to compile properly a plain C source file...
Now advancing C standards (which in fact seem to me not more than an attempt to adjust the C language to C++ features) seems to make this increasingly difficult, that's likely IMHO why M$ is back-paddling now...

Ralf

Offline Robert

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:15:52 am »
Put this in the equation. C/C++ programs compiled with Microsoft Visual Studio 11 will not run on Windows XP.

czerny

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 09:38:07 am »
Quote
Put this in the equation. C/C++ programs compiled with Microsoft Visual Studio 11 will not run on Windows XP.
Much easier! The 11er linker will set Windows version to 6 in the PE header.  ;D

Offline Stefan Pendl

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 06:14:22 pm »
If you use build.exe you can define the target version using the variable _NT_TARGET_VERSION in the sources file, which still supports setting it to _NT_TARGET_VERSION_NT4=0x400
This should make sure that the sub-system is set to 4.0

I am currently investigating this solution to be able to move from DDK 2003 SP1 to WDK 7.1
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Stefan

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Offline Robert

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 07:10:28 pm »
Put this in the equation. C/C++ programs compiled with Microsoft Visual Studio 11 will not run on Windows XP.

For details please see the Microsoft Bug Report

Bug: apps created with CRT and MFC vNext (11) cannot be used on Windows XP SP3

at

http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/690617

also Google

"Visual Studio 11" XP

for many discussions on the subject.


Offline Pelle

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 04:38:01 pm »
If you havn't seen it, this may be interesting too:
http://herbsutter.com - "Reader Q&A: What about VC++ and C99?" (from 2012-05-03)
/Pelle

Offline Stefan Pendl

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2012, 07:36:56 pm »
Pelle that was interesting.

So it seems that the UltraDefrag project should drop IA64 support and switch to PellesC for better support of pure C.
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Stefan

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Offline Robert

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 09:04:43 pm »
It is written at

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/products/express

that

Visual Studio 11 Express for Windows 8 provides tools for Metro style
app development. To create desktop apps, you need to use Visual Studio
11 Professional, or higher.

and it is written at

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/desktop/hh852363

that

The following items were either changed or removed from
Windows Software Development Kit (SDK) for Windows 8.

1.Command-line Build Environment The Windows SDK no longer ships with a
complete command-line build environment. The Windows SDK now requires a
compiler and build environment to be installed separately.

By removing the command-line build environment, the Windows SDK no longer ships the following components:

Windows SDK Platform Toolset

Visual C++ Compilers and C Runtime (CRT)

Windows SDK Configuration Tool


Offline Vortex

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Re: FYI: MS Visual Studio and C99/C11
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 10:31:36 pm »
Assembly is the mother language of the processor and in terms of speed , no any other language can beat it. Assembly is ideal for some speed critical tasks.
Code it... That's all...